For 90 years, animal testing was the gold standard in drug development. But now the data is in: it doesn’t work. In this episode, Wayne Pacelle, President of Animal Wellness Action, explains why the U.S. just ended primate testing at the CDC — and how AI, ethics, and real science are rewriting the rules.

Wayne shares how primates, including ASL-trained chimps like Nim Chimpsky, helped change public perception — and why outdated 1930s testing laws are finally being overturned. He also touches on the surprising bipartisan support behind this change, and how zoos are evolving into unlikely allies for animal welfare.

A deeply human conversation about how progress actually happens.

GUEST:
Wayne Pacelle
@waynepacelle, waynepacelle.com

Originally aired on2025-12-09